that last post reminded me i wanted to make a psa about asgore because a lot of people treat him badly and justify it with “he killed kids”
but like… here’s the thing…
he didn’t?
while asgore was the one to come up with the 100% shit plan of taking human souls, his whole character has to do with cowardice, and how is heart is too soft to really go through with something with that, how he’s just desperate to bring his people hope even if it means hurting people he doesn’t want to hurt.
toriel was the brains behind his whole reign as king, and with her gone, he’s forced to lead in areas he never really has before. he’s forced to improvise under pressure, all while recovering from the grief of losing his own children.
but asgore never actually killed anyone. the various armor and weapons you pick up throughout the game belonged to the children that had fallen long before frisk, the souls that asgore ended up taking. but the items you find, that they’ve left behind? all long before you get to him. the very last soul’s equipment and weapon is found at the hotel MTT, which is a whole core away from him. those children were likely killed by undyne, by the royal guard, by sans. by ALL your faves who you love in favour of king fluffybuns.
asgore waits in his castle for the souls to come to him because he doesn’t have it in his heart to seek out and kill. it’s apparent enough from the way he reacts to seeing frisk up close and in the flesh. everything about his face, his words, his actions, speak of a man who has just realized he’s going to have to take an innocent life. he’s been able to dissociate himself from the situation before, reaping only the spoils when his soldiers bring the souls of what was once living to him. he cannot anymore.
so like. give asgore a break maybe.
I feel like I could see this argument, if it wasn’t for a couple of lines here and there that seriously hint (to me, anyway) at the fact that Asgore has killed at least a couple of the children himself.
Firstly, when Papyrus describes what’s going to happen to you after he captures you:
Though this is obviously Papyrus’ first time encountering a human, if he’s following orders directly from Undyne, I think it’s safe to assume he’s following a pre-established protocol. Dangerous humans might’ve been dealt with on-site once they were found, but I think what usually happens is someone in the Royal Guard is meant to simply capture the human and deliver them directly to Asgore.
This idea is also supported by some dialogue from Undyne during your fight with her:
Undyne IS willing to kill the human for Asgore, yes, but her dialogue explicitly states that other humans have fought (and have been defeated by) Asgore himself. Whether they were delivered to him or the humans managed to find their way all the way to him by themselves, Asgore at the very least met a couple of the humans and took their souls personally.
The last thing is a bit of a personal interpretation, nothing very concrete, but I think it’s fair to add anyway. You read Asgore’s reaction to meeting Frisk as,
it’s apparent enough from the way he reacts to seeing frisk up close and in the flesh. everything about his face, his words, his actions, speak of a man who has just realized he’s going to have to take an innocent life. he’s been able to dissociate himself from the situation before, reaping only the spoils when his soldiers bring the souls of what was once living to him. he cannot anymore.
I can kind of see why you might’ve gotten that impression, but personally, I kind of got the complete opposite idea! He’s very surprised, yes, but the way he talks and acts after he gets over his shock at seeing Frisk…
These don’t strike me as the words of a man who is forced to face the consequences of his own shitty decision for the very first time; the words of a man who realizes that he finally has to take the life of an innocent child, and there’s no way around that. It sounds, to me, like he just kind of… knows it’s something that has to be done. Or, he thinks it has to be done this way. I think he’s long since accepted what’s going to happen next.
And I feel like a lot of Asgore’s dialogue here is just as much him trying to comfort himself as he is trying to comfort Frisk.
Yeah Asgore… and who’s really the one in the dentist’s chair?
All of this feels scripted and stale to me. It feels practiced… Streamlined. It feels like Asgore has done this before, and he knows the least painful way to get the job done is to just get right to things - like ripping off a bandaid.
As far as your other, smaller points go:
the various armor and weapons you pick up throughout the game belonged to the children that had fallen long before frisk, the souls that asgore ended up taking. but the items you find, that they’ve left behind? all long before you get to him. the very last soul’s equipment and weapon is found at the hotel MTT, which is a whole core away from him. those children were likely killed by undyne, by the royal guard, by sans. by ALL your faves who you love in favour of king fluffybuns
I think plenty of this is up in the air to interpret, especially the exact details of how/when/where the previous human souls were captured or killed, but I’d like to make the argument that just because you find their items in a certain place doesn’t mean that’s where they died.
Frisk has been running around down here picking up and dropping whatever they so please. Who is to say the other children didn’t pick up or discard certain things on their journey, too? Perhaps on accident, or maybe on purpose… There are plenty of reasons why they might’ve lost or gotten rid of things.
And you gotta remember that there have been years between each child falling down. Who is to say the items didn’t simply get shuffled around in the garbage or by monsters. I mean, you find the ballet shoes and tutu in the same ‘area’, but in very different spots. Catty and Bratty say they found the toy gun in the garbage, which is all the way back in Waterfall. Things get moved and displaced.
Lastly, you suggest Sans might’ve captured or killed one or more of the humans, and I’d have to disagree? If only because Papyrus has never seen a human himself, so I feel like their involvement in all this is a relatively new development. It’s hard to tell exactly, because Sans isn’t transparent with details, but I think it’s fair to say he and Papyrus probably appeared in Snowdin between human appearances (with Frisk being the first since).
I certainly hope this doesn’t come off as bitter or angry or anything! This is all coming from someone who really likes Asgore! Despite everything he has done - all the choices he has made and people he has hurt - I still adore the big guy. But I think… ahh, I hope this doesn’t come off wrong, but I think it’s unfair to overlook or take away an aspect of his character that is so huge.
Asgore made bad choices. He had to take responsibility for those choices. Asgore might be something of a coward, yes, but he is first and foremost a figure of hope, and he is fiercely Determined to be a good king to his subjects and keep their dreams alive. Asgore would never, ever forego responsibility if it meant betraying or ‘using’ any of the monsters under his rule. I can absolutely see your argument, that Asgore reaped the spoils of the Royal Guard’s work for him and never really got his own hands dirty, but I don’t think Asgore would sink so low as that. Not killing someone yourself doesn’t mean you’re not doing an awful thing, nor does having someone else do the deed absolve you of any blame.
Asgore is great, but… He made a mistake. A big mistake. But he is who knows how old… and he understood the consequences of his actions. Though he didn’t like them, he accepted them. He did what he thought was right for his people, all the monsters who love him, and whom he loved just as much if not more.
To truly appreciate a character, you have to take all the good and the bad, and understand how everything helps make them a more interesting, dynamic, and lovable person. Asgore is the King Under the Mountain; Asgore is the King of all monsters; Asgore is Mr. Dad Guy, and he is Mr. Fluffybuns; Asgore is the one who condoned the murder of six human children and probably took their lives himself.
And Asgore is the one who had coffins built for them - custom made and engraved with their names - so he could respectfully put their bodies to rest when it was over.
^This. Asgore was a coward who didn’t want to do what was needed and was letting his people suffer in hopes that he didn’t need to do it. I love asgore as a character and headcanon that the reason he socializes so much with the people is because he constantly feels his sins crawling on his back. You can like a character without justifying or denying that they did bad things because chances are, the bad things they do are a big part of their character.
its v scary how well dr horrible songs fit for sans tbh
I know, it’s shotcking how someone who constantly has an internal battle and watches the person he loves most die due to his mistake can relate to dr horrible.
People seem to forget a lot of stuff about Papyrus in favor of giving him a childlike persona, so I have compiled a list of stuff he has actually done. Papyrus:
Is legitimately sarcastic, and has lightheartedly snarked at Undyne a couple times.
Used reverse psychology on Undyne in order to get her to make friends with Frisk.
Apparently able to solve the newspaper crossword puzzle with ease.
Made a trap on the bridge that was perfectly capable of giving you hell, but chose to deactivate it because he thought it wouldn’t be fair.
Is actually really goddamn organized.
Enjoys seeing things that are in order and well structured.
Doesn’t like Grillby’s.
Thinks almost everything about Hotland is stupid and believes their entire method of getting around is ridiculous.
Is grossed out pretty easily.
The one who convinced Sans to get a job.
Capable of looking after him in the past and mentioned having to keep him on the “straight and narrow”.
Is not some helpless child who constantly has to be babied by Sans.
He is hardworking as hell, he just plain doesn’t give up, on his aims or on people.
Seems to be pretty dexterous, normally sticking the window landing.
He’s easily formidable enough to join the Royal Guard in terms of combat.
Insecure at times about not having too many friends, and quickly changed his stance on Grillby’s after Undyne says she likes it.
Really tries to take care of his friends, like he encourages Alphys, got Sans to get up and find work, and when Undyne was depressed in the neutral ending he does his best to make her happy again.
Internalized his grief and loneliness over the absence of his friends when he was made ruler, not even telling Sans about it, but kept on trying to give everyone hope regardless.
Is not only capable but seriously nurturing, friendly, and unabashedly encouraging to everyone he comes across.
I am Silver Tongue, I am an artist. I have many characters and you can check out my art in the art tag. I occasionally practice witchcraft though I don't do anything too complicated. I am girl 2 and don't know what else to put here.
